Interview with Lee Zuniss - CoActive Life Coach and Microdose Guide

My special guest this week is Lee Zuniss. Our topic? Psychedelics.

Gasp...what?? Haha -  OK micro-dosing to be more specific. With all of the celebrities, and now even many mainstream doctors, touting its benefits, I know I was curious to find out what all the fuss was about. So I figured my audience might be as well. Lee unpacks this current, and somewhat controversial, topic with me to explain why micro-dosing isn't necessarily as scary or scandalous as you might think.

He is a co-active life coach who holds a calming and happy space and energy for his clients, as they look inside to find their own answers.

To learn more, visit Lee's website at LeeZunissCoaching.com.

And follow him on Instagram and Facebook. 

Please like and subscribe here and also visit my links page to see all of the other places we can connect https://www.joyfulicity.com/links

Transcript

Laura Wakefield: 0:08

Welcome to the joy Felicity podcast. I'm your host, Laura Wakefield. And I'm pleased today to have Lise Zooniverse. On as my guest, Lee and I met originally on Instagram, and he is a certified co active life coach and microdose died. And I was curious about all the micro dosing stuff, because it's something I know absolutely nothing about. Other than that quite a few prominent celebrities and podcasters. And things have begun talking about it. So I'm very curious to learn more about that. Welcome, Lee to the show. Laura, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm very excited to be here. Wonderful. Before we get into the microdosing, I wanted to ask you a little bit about your story and how you decided to get into coaching in the first place. Can you tell us your backstory just a little bit? Yeah, it's funny. I've been just from people asking me about this and like writing my bio, and doing you know, all the work on my website and stuff. I've been thinking about it. I feel like so when you asked me that question, I actually go back, I just turned 50 A few on a on April Fool's Day. And so if I go back to when I was a young child, I grew up in New Jersey, and we had a we had a house in a garage. And I remember that once, one particular moment where I was in the garage, and I was maybe I was, I don't know, six or seven years old. And looking back, I realized that I was having a panic attack. But just out of No, just, I didn't know why I didn't know what was going on. I remember like holding on to the shelf. And I remember regulating my breath. Hmm, interesting. I just went, I just went there. And I just suddenly you kind of knew to do that. I just regulated my breath, I noticed my breath.

Lee Zunnis: 2:06

I felt I followed it. And I and I regulate. So I started doing I guess mindful Miss breath techniques. From a very early age, not even knowing that I was doing it. And I guess fast forwarding to, I'm just gonna give you a little timeline because it all leads up to basically ticket to to new air. Fast forward to when I was 13, I was diagnosed with type one diabetes. And from that moment on, I had to be extremely I would say focused and intentional about my blood sugar and checking my blood sugar eight times a day. And so I had this connection to my body, in particular to my blood sugar levels, and also to nutrition and things like that. But I could, so I was practicing mindfulness in that respect from a very early age. And I didn't have a choice to write. And then. So that was just a practice. So I was practicing every debt, like when you practice something every day, I became an expert on at least just noticing that connection. Right. And then we'll jump forward to maybe about 10 years ago, so let's jump like 30 years or something I was in a couples therapist, office with my ex wife, and we decided that we were going to go to couples therapy therapy for for a year, once a week, just to see if we can, I was we were both just like let's do whatever we can to see if we can make this work. And we did it and toward the end. There was one session where and there was a moment where they looked at each other and then they kind of looked at me and then they looked at each other again like this exhausted like they were exhausted by by me and my my behavior as far as like me wanting to be right and like wanting to be right and win and win the argument whatever what I was there to win and be right and I'm getting chills as I'm saying this and I've been in that situation before. And but this is what I had I had. So a psychedelic experience is a mind altering experience. Okay, it doesn't have to necessarily have Have psychedelics actual psychedelic medicine or drugs involved? So in that moment, I somehow was looking at myself through their eyes. And I got, and I saw myself and I saw what they were seeing. And I got the I freaked out. And I got really scared like, Am I crazy? Am I Am I like, what's going on? Like, how did I not? Yeah, how am I not seeing this behavior. And so I walked out of there, that was an awakening, that was probably one of the first awakenings that I've had, where I realized I didn't know necessarily see or know what I was doing. Like all the time, right. And from that moment on, I became fascinated with watching my brain and watching my nervous system. And so I just dove in. And that was about 10 years ago, where I just became so focused on my brain and watching my brain that that was another practice that was sort of like priming me to be I knew it was priming me to become a coach. And, and then throughout the last, I would say, 10 years, I've had a few extremely powerful actual psychedelic medicine experiences. One Ayahuasca in Ayahuasca ceremony, another one, and another, a bunch of other different psychedelics that I was experimenting with. And so that was that just opened that just kind of opened my eyes and shined a light on the power of psychedelics as a medicine, and as a therapy. And then after that, it's just sort of like the pandemic happened. We, my wife, and I moved, my current wife moved here from New York, from ticket to Colorado, a few months before it before the pandemic hit. And, and it's kind of a brand new place where you know, no one Yeah. Brooklyn, New York after for 20 years moving to this tiny mountain town with 1000 people. Yeah. It gave me some time. Yeah, and some room to breathe and to see what was working in my life and what wasn't. And at the time, when I moved here, I was I owned a commercial printing company, it was a letterpress company that was running out of Denver. And every morning, I would get up, and I would dread having to do what I was doing. So I knew that like, I didn't even want waters to come in, because I knew I had to, like take care of them. So it took a little while for that pattern. To continue where I just said, I am just freakin done. I'm done. Now, I'm done with this. And then it was a series of events that kind of led me to learning about CoActive Coaching, the collective coaching program. I had a friend that signed up for it. And then I was just like, oh, one of my mantras at the time was to follow my curiosity and to trust it. I love that. And so use that as my guide. I use curiosity as my guide. I signed up for the program. A year and a half later, I was certified. In that time, I just started my practice. I started promoting my practice, I started getting clients. And within that time as well, I took two courses for coaches, therapists and doctors of incorporating micro dosing into their practice. And so it all just sort of unfolded. Through my practice of curiosity a few years ago, a friend of mine told me who's a naturopath? I don't know where she's like, Lee, you're a healer. At first I was like, Well, you know, like, What are you talking about? Like, I'm, I'm an I'm a businessman, I'm a business person. I'm an entrepreneur. We mean to me. She's like, No, you're a healer. And I wanted to just, my inner critic would just say, like, you know, stop it, you know, that's not me. Talk about words of affirmation. I think about that. Almost on a daily basis, those words. So Rachael, Meredith, if you're listening to this, thank you so much. I thank you a million times already. But but that I'm bringing that up because of the power of words of affirmation. So I had no idea when she said that what impact it was going to have you no, no, absolutely not. Absolutely not. So. So here we are today. And I know I'm being interviewed on your podcast. Oh,

Laura Wakefield: 10:00

I'm for being a life coach specializing in micro dosing. Yes. Well, so I'm following my curiosity. Because So, micro dosing, there's so many ideas when you hear the word psychedelic, psychedelic, yes. You know, you. I mean, if you're not in, as knowledgeable as you, a lot of people might think they're thinking drugs or like the hippies, or you know, or whatever myths or preconceived ideas that they have about that. And I've had those thoughts before and ideas about that. And then recently, it's becoming much more mainstream. You're even hearing doctors talk about it in and all of this stuff. So I'm putting those things completely aside in my mind now. And I'm here to learn from you. So talk to me about psychedelics, what they do, how they work, and why they're helpful to people? Sure, yeah, they listen, they got a really bad rap in the 56, in 60 years, and they were just stepped on by the government. And now they have reemerged, there's so much over the past 10 years, but especially the past five years has been so much research being done

Lee Zunnis: 11:14

through many programs, including John Hopkins. And it's becoming so clear that this is possibly the most effective medicine, when it comes to depression, anxiety, PTSD, addiction, oh my god, addiction, it's really. So if I look through the lens of not being so deeply emerged, in this world, I could see how that there can be that can be contradictory. But as far as toxicity is concerned, especially psilocybin mushrooms, we have, there's a list on a, on a website that I use as a resource called the microdose Institute. And they have a list of different drugs, and substances, I think it's like a list of like 30 or 40 different substances, and at the right at the top are substance substances like alcohol, heroin, cocaine, and all the way down at the bottom, I think it's like the last one of the last ones is psilocybin mushrooms. So it's such a gentle, it's the most, it's one of the most powerful yet gentle medicines that exist, basically what's happening with psychedelics, and I'm just going to focus on psilocybin mushrooms. Our time today, there's a certain part of our brain called the default mode network. Okay. It's a, it's a conglomeration of approximately 30 different parts of the brain. And each part has its own function. But when it's but when those parts are put together, it makes up the default mode network. The default mode network is responsible, mostly for thinking about the future, the past, ourselves and other people. And that's fine, if that's fine in itself, but when it leads to rumination, and obsessive thinking, that's when we get anxious or, or we're turns out, or we're depressed or stressed. So an overactive default mode network. So one of the three parts in the in the default mode network is the amygdala. Most people have heard of the, the amygdala which is the part of the brain that is responsible for fight or flight, like when there's an emergency, and we have, so that kicks in, but when that kicks in, when there's no emergency. Yes, anxiety is rumination, anxiety, obsession, obsessive thinking. So what what the psilocybin does, it dampens the unnecessary activity in the default mode network. Okay. And from my personal experience, and also there's plenty of research backing this up. That once that gets quiet down, that's our that what's what's beneath that? We're behind that or wherever we want to call it. That's our authentic self. That's where That's where our pieces, that's where our joy, you know, taking away all that obsessive thinking, that's where we can sit and, and, and be with ourselves with. I'll use air quotes with ourselves whatever that may mean, but, but I feel like that's where the joy is. Yeah. Does that make sense that

Laura Wakefield: 15:25

salutely? Yeah, I've heard of the amygdala, getting to finally be talked about more and more. And I think thing that has attracted me to the idea of it, although I've not tried it at this point in time, because of some there's some legality issues still with it. We can talk about that later. But yes, you know, we medicate ourselves all the time with substances to do those very things, but they're not natural substances. Right? This has been so vilified, but it's actually a natural substance found, you know, organically, that our bodies probably know better what to do with and some of the inorganic things that we think of as standard medicine. And that doesn't make sense. Oh, curiosity curiosities coming up in me that will, why have we made this illegal when XYZ that are just pharmaceuticals are legal? And they're doing the same thing? is really what a troll and money back back in the 60s? Yeah.

Lee Zunnis: 16:32

Yeah, who had the power? Not letting? Yeah, not not letting you know, things got a little free thinking can be a bit scary for, for the government? For governments? Yeah. Yeah. All it takes. There you go. There you go. Well,

Laura Wakefield: 16:54

I know that it's even like you said, like, mainstream doctors are starting to talk about this now. So it's getting a little bit more general public acceptance. But still, so do you still find people who are quite resistant? Because of all of the sorts of messages that have been sent previously?

Lee Zunnis: 17:16

I? Well, yes, I do. But most of the people that I'm that are reaching out to me are, have done research. They've done their research, and they're interested, they want to get educated, they want to know best practices. So yeah, to answer your question, most of the people are somewhat open and ready. Gotcha. But if I'm talking to a group of people, that or not, everything that we just talked about still lives, in people's minds very much so very much. This is just the beginning. I'm hoping that our conversation, anything that I can do to to help people feel, I mean, listen, it's all I can say is what is what I know, my experiences, my clients experience, experiences, and the research

Laura Wakefield: 18:08

that's out there. So you're trained in traditional coaching, also.

Lee Zunnis: 18:13

I'm a coach, first and foremost, I'm a coach. I'm a coach. It seems as though I mostly support people as a life coach. But I do have some clients that are reaching out to me recently helping with their businesses as well. But I'm trained to basically coach anything. The micro dosing is a tool. It's a very powerful tool. But it's a tool. There are other tools out there that can dampen the overactivity of the default mode network, like exercise, meditation. You know, I get a little nervous for doing talks like this. So I prepped myself today by exercising, I have a sauna on the property. I took a sauna. I took a cold shower, I took a tiny, tiny micro dose a few hours ago, like even less than than like the average micro dose, then someone would take because I know what it does. And I just wanted to be as present as possible. Yes.

Laura Wakefield: 19:19

And I like that, that you're saying that it's it's part of sort of a whole toolbox of things that you use as a coach. Yeah, yeah. Everyone and people could still work with you for coaching, even if they weren't comfortable with that initially.

Lee Zunnis: 19:34

Absolutely, I'd say about, you know, because micro dosing is my specialty. I'd say about seven 70% of my clients are micro dosing and taking advantage of my coaching at the same time, and about 30% Straight up coaching, but I'll say it again, I'm a I'm a coach, first and foremost. Yeah. My clients that are taking advantage of micro dosing, I help them with calibration, to calibrate figuring out your dosage is probably the main, the main thing, because it's not like taking a pharmaceutical, like let's say, Adderall or something with psilocybin. And any psychedelic, everybody's different and has nothing to do with weight, it has to do with chemistry. Interesting. So we spend, we spend at least probably probably about a month, calibrating the dosage, finding out what window, the window, the dosages, and then hopefully, at the end of I normally work with my clients for like a minimum of three months, what they will walk away with is being very comfortable building their relationship with with psilocybin figuring out what their calibration is, so they can so they can do it on their own. Gotcha. Your goal is to not be needed anymore, because they are so knowledgeable in themselves that

Laura Wakefield: 21:05

they can go on.

Lee Zunnis: 21:07

I don't. Yeah, I mean, if the client finds it helpful to meet with me on a regular basis for I have clients that I've been working with for a year and a half or so like once every, like once a week, once every two weeks. But it's, it's because they find it helpful. Because they need me. They just they just find it helpful. It's like, you know, it's a work. Sometimes it's a workout working work. Sometimes it's fun. Sometimes it's a you know, it's it's fun to explore and explore different perspectives and work on the goals. But a lot of times it's like, you know, alright, they're done, you know, it was a workout. It was a workout. So, so yeah, so but it's all about my, my coaching is extremely client centered. It's all about empowerment, I don't give advice, unless I'm really asked to. Because I do believe that, and this is part of the CO active coaching model is that the client has the answers, and the coach has the questions. I love that.

Laura Wakefield: 22:21

I love that because they do the only answers that are gonna be relevant in their lives going forward, we'll be coming from inside of them, I completely agree with you on that. That's where

Lee Zunnis: 22:31

the, the whatever you want to call it, the authenticity, the truth, the compass, and it's just, you know, the compass to make a choice to make different choices and continue to move forward and take different actions. But I just created a space and I asked him million questions to get clear on what's important to them. And are those important things which are referred to as core values? Are they being honored? Or are they being stepped on? And if they're not being honored, there's a very good chance that there's some kind of anxiety or depression or stress happening, because we're not honoring the most important things in our lives. And we wonder why we're failing? I mean, no, I mean, I would say in most cases, for most people, if the most important things are clear and addressed, and then there are actions taken to honor that, mostly that their level of anxiety just goes down a few a few notches, for sure.

Laura Wakefield: 23:35

So for somebody like me, that's, that's a microdosing virgin, so to speak, or psychedelics, you know, I've never tried it. I think that one of the things that would hold me back from trying is just simply fear of the unknown and not knowing what to expect, you know, like, what will happen if I try that? What would you say to somebody like that that was curious, interested in trying it but was nervous, what, what can they expect to feel? And what do they what will happen when they try it? Does that make sense? Okay.

Lee Zunnis: 24:14

Perfect sense. So let me first start off by saying that a micro dose is, on average, 1/10 to 1/20. Of a dosage of a macro dose or a tripping dosage where someone is hallucinating what someone should expect? Well, first of all, in the beginning, when I'm teaching them how to calibrate their dosage, we start off at it's such a small dosage that in the beginning, actually, almost everyone doesn't even feel anything. And then we increment we incrementally increase. And that's why it takes about a month or so. Every other day, we incrementally incrementally increased. First of all, no one To look when your mic or your there are no hallucinate notes hallucinating.

Laura Wakefield: 25:04

Okay, that I think that's what I would be afraid of is that I would be very clear. You know,

Lee Zunnis: 25:10

let me be very clear about that. Oh, you know what's coming to me right now? Okay. Yesterday, was sitting out in the morning having coffee with my wife, and we have hummingbirds all over you. And so these two hummingbirds came up to face, zoo. And all this, I looked at my wife, she's like, so excited. So we decided, yes, element of excitement. And folk like, in that moment, when these Hummingbirds are right in front of her face. She wasn't thinking about anything. She there were hummingbirds in front of her faces. Her face lit up. And so maybe not that much of an effect. But it's this sense of well being. And I'm gonna say joy. Yeah. And because the default mode network is, is is becoming less active. We're not thinking about the things that we think about and ruminate all the time. There's quiet, the brain quiets down, the inner critic quiets down, the saboteur quiets down, and you're left with whatever you're left, you're left with whatever's there. Yeah. And so there's an element of focus. There's an element of well being, like this, like, element of like, sustainable energy. Interesting. Yeah. And so so just to be very clear, nobody's hallucinating. You know that when you're taking a little bit too much when maybe you start to feel a little scattered. Okay, and your brain, or you start to feel a little tired, then we know, we're probably outside of the window, of calibration of dosage.

Laura Wakefield: 26:51

So you're probably the first thing you know, that's not the goal, right? If you're like trying to get high or have sex, or have hallucinations, you're just trying to get calm and clear. Sounds like calm and clear. Common clear.

Lee Zunnis: 27:04

Yes. I love Yeah. And no, you're not getting high. This is not a you can if you if you take a bit more. Yeah. And it's, it could be it could be quite enjoyable.

Laura Wakefield: 27:17

From it, that's a different thing than what you're talking about.

Lee Zunnis: 27:21

That's for, you know, I like to take a little bit more if I'm going to I love micro dosing and exercising, because it's just like, it really brings me into the moment. Yeah, what micro dosing also helps with is doing these things that it makes, it makes the the daily tasks that aren't, they're kind of like redundant or not so enjoyable. It just makes it a little bit more enjoyable also, but you're not high. So high. You can you figure out whatever serves you best, you figure out your window. And then you know, like, for example, this morning, I told you, I took probably a 10th of what I would normally take as as a micro dose. And, you know, I'm an expert at figuring out now what my dose is just so I know. And I also know what's happening in the brain. So I just feel more present. Yeah. And kind of happen. Just, I'm feeling gratitude for being here. With you. Yeah,

Laura Wakefield: 28:21

so the best way I can describe it, but I will not helpful, because I just held some myths that I maybe had in my mind that if I tried this somehow I would, you know, not be in control of what I was thinking or saying or doing. You read? No, I

Lee Zunnis: 28:37

would say it's the opposite. Yeah, that's what it sounds like. I would say it's the opposite of that. So in your court, you're more intentional. Yeah. Yeah, I

Laura Wakefield: 28:46

would think so. When you're coaching people come to you with maybe a problem they're trying to solve or whatever, you know, they're coming to coaching for it sounds to me, like the micro dosing, like you said, is a tool, but how does that help somebody to increase the benefit of coaching? Like, like, why would you not just stick with traditional coaching and then do this as a completely separate thing? Why, how do those two things work together? Well,

Lee Zunnis: 29:13

well, micro dosing, I'm gonna use the word tool again. So it's a tool to prime my clients to show up, you know, you show up to a coaching session, being more present in a quieter mind and then, and then it also opens the heart, so it makes us more vulnerable. When the saboteur and the inner critic gets quiet, then we can be a little bit more in touch with what's really happening. So in a nutshell, I would say my clients show up with a quieter mind and an open heart. What's What's bad about that, you know, I mean, it makes honestly makes the job easier. It makes the coaching Session more efficient for, for both my clients and myself. Interesting. I try and create a space for my clients to be, and to share what they want coaching on, and to share from an authentic place and honest place. And the microdosing helps turn down anything that might get in the way. And so it just cuts through to the, to the core. So that's that. I mean, that's why it's so powerful. I know. Yeah, we all have that.

Laura Wakefield: 30:35

You know, you've been saying saboteur, inner critic, all of those things that we all have all those little voices and all those little pesky thoughts and feelings that are so unhelpful. And hold us back from so many things. And we develop those will take up more as we go along in our lives, and to be able to sort of just set those aside for a minute and get into what's real, because those things are not real. They feel very real. But but they are not, you know, and,

Lee Zunnis: 31:11

and, you know, you you mentioned that they're not helpful, they're not helpful today, they were at some point. Right? Right. At some point in their lives, they were helpful, but not anymore. And we don't want to hate the inner critic or the saboteur because it gives us information, it shines a light on what might need some attention, and it shines a light on these conditioned thoughts and actions that we've been operating with that worked at some at some time, but not now. Right? Not now. So becoming very clear on that. And having a relationship with the inner critic, or the saboteur is so important to know, when it's showing up like you, there's a moment when, you know, I'm like imagining, like imagining, like my inner critic, like coming, walking up and stepping, stepping up and coming behind. And just to, like, protect me, like, an old friend would like come and help you, you know, back in high school or whatever, but you got into trouble with them from their help. Also, what, what the microdosing does, what the psilocybin does is it shines a light on what might need attention in our lives. So it's not all about, it's not all about focus. And I mean, all of the focus and the energy, and the feeling of well being is there. But if someone signs up for like a larger psychedelic experience, they need to know that it's it very well might shine a light on something that might need attention. And then that's where the integration comes in. But if somebody doesn't want to deal with the if somebody doesn't, is not ready for that, then don't I recommend not not entertaining psychedelics.

Laura Wakefield: 33:06

I mean, even cool without microdose Yeah, that's a little in way to think that things that you've been keeping down for a while, but suddenly come up. And, you know, if you're not ready, that could be terrifying, I would think it could be but if you're ready, it's a wonderful tool.

Lee Zunnis: 33:25

So but even in coaching things can come even forget about psychedelics, with coaching, creating a space and being asked questions and stuff very well could come up also. So most people sign up for coaching, and the microdosing because they want to grow, they want to address these things. They want to sort of take a leap off the cliff, knowing that they're in a safe space, though.

Laura Wakefield: 33:50

Right, exactly. That's the key is that you create that for that effort? Yes. Yes. So important. So one question I have if this is a, something that sort of suppresses the amygdala, I know our amygdala is critical to our survival. You know, without it, we would just be walking in front of traffic, we would, you know, we wouldn't have any sort of basic instincts of self protection. The micro dosing isn't dangerous that way. Is it tell me about it a

Lee Zunnis: 34:18

micro dose level? No, no, the amygdala, the amygdala, the default mode network, is it stronger than it? Not in a micro dose level? It works at a macro dose level, then yeah, you are, you're in an altered state. You're that's why it's so important to you know, it's highly recommended to have either like a sitter or or do it with a therapist or a coach. And and to be very intentional about your, your set and setting your mindset and the setting or around you and be in a controlled environment. Because usually when people have, I would say negative experiences, they haven't put thought into their set and setting. Yet somebody could very well have a wonderful experience walking around New York City on a very large dosage. But I would not do that. I personally would not. But yeah. But just to be clear, Regarding your question about micro dosing? No, it's, there's nothing, I would say there's nothing to worry about. As far as the the important, the important part, the important function of the amygdala and the default mode network, if some if an emergency happens, it'll override any any of the small amount of psilocybin that's in that in the system.

Laura Wakefield: 35:55

Okay, so you're saying is safe in the micro dose realm, you're not so altered, that you're not in control of yourself?

Lee Zunnis: 36:04

Well, I mean, what if, listen, if someone had has a half of a glass of wine, or, or something like that, and no emergency happens, they're not you know, they're, it's, it's a powerful our, our amygdala is freaking powerful. Right? So the larger the dosage, the more the amygdala and the default mode network is, is dampened. So it's a direct correlation between the dosage and the amount of you know, in someone's ego gets dissolved. That's, you're talking, it's known as like a heroic dose, very, very large dosage. Sure, yeah, you shouldn't be operating any heavy machinery, or you should just be in your set and setting with guidance and a sitter.

Laura Wakefield: 36:54

Yeah, and you made a good point, comparing it to alcohol, because there's other things that are pretty mainstream, like, like alcohol, that are also the same, like you shouldn't drink excessively, and then be expecting yourself to be in full control. So it's not really that different than things that are already considered pretty normal and accepted. Just use it wisely. You know, don't make bad choices.

Lee Zunnis: 37:19

Just intention, it's all you know, I can express the Yeah, when it comes to this kind of work. And this kind of medicine intention is probably I know, experts will say this, your intention is just as powerful as the medicine. I mean, we know how important we know how important intention is, this medicine is just a tool to accelerate it, or enhance it

Laura Wakefield: 37:49

the other step out of the way so that you can actually focus on it. Yes, love that. Now, I know you mentioned Ayahuasca earlier, which is different than the psilocybin. But I've heard again, we're, we're mythbusting here now. But I've heard that things like that can actually make you feel kind of sick. Is that true of micro dosing also? Like, like some exotic, the larger

Lee Zunnis: 38:13

the dosage, the more, you might feel some nausea, and it's just because the stomach is that our digestive system is working to break it down. But there are things you can do. For us on a micro dose level, actually, I don't think I'm just thinking about back maybe like one or two people who have experienced, ever so slight nausea, and there's something you can do for that, which is you. You put the mushrooms in, you soak your mushrooms in lemon juice, and the lemon juice does a job with the digestive system, but it doesn't in advance, it breaks down whatever causes that nausea in advance. So if anyone has an issue with that, that's one thing you can do that works very effectively. But again, as the I would say, only a few one or 2% of people, that micro dose will will have will feel nauseous. Okay, larger dosage. A larger dosage? Yeah, yeah. It's it's somewhat common, but, but it's common for the first like hours. So and then once it levels out, that starts to go away. It's a big deal. Yeah. So, legality.

Laura Wakefield: 39:38

It talked to me about that. I know that it used to be illegal everywhere, and he kind of psychedelic substance that's not true anymore. Whereas they were things that with that. So this is an interesting topic, because the laws are changing, like on a daily basis. Yeah.

Lee Zunnis: 39:57

Right now, in the United States. psilocybin DMT, which is one of the compounds that go into the brew, in an Ayahuasca brew, along with the Ayahuasca vine, so it's DM, so it's the leaf, and the vine and mescaline, those are decriminalized in Colorado, where again, and then skid, and then scattered cities throughout California. And again, it's changing on a daily basis. So, but mostly and so and so what decriminalized means is that is legal to possess these three, the three, three psychedelics that I mentioned, it's illegal to possess it, if you're over 21, it's also legal to gift it to someone, if you're over 21, and they're over 21. And that's possession. But in Oregon, now, it's, it is legal, to have a therapy therapeutic psychedelic section with a licensed therapist. So this is where things are going. Yes. And then there's like threat like scattered into like places like Netherlands and certain areas of Canada and Jamaica, it's perfectly legal, and it's legal to actually grow your own. I have spoken to attorneys about this stuff. And the fact of the matter is that the DEA and law enforcement throughout the country, they're not, they're not putting any energy or money in to, into doing anything into enforcing this. So that's where that's where we're at right now. And I didn't quite believe that a couple of years ago when someone told me about that. But yeah, you're finding that that is, that is to be true, that that is to be be the truth. So but still, it is it is illegal in all of the other states that besides the ones that that I mentioned.

Laura Wakefield: 42:03

Yeah. And so you know, it's interesting, because the more and more doctors that I'm hearing talk about this, and the more you know, it's going to change, it's just going to take a little bit of time. But it's part of it, I think, an overall shift in thinking that people are having more toward holistic remedies, in general, like, more toward all different kinds of herbs, all different kinds of natural remedies that have literally been around since ancient times. These are not new substances that somebody just created. These These have been known about, used practiced for 1000s of years and 1000s of years. Yeah, we've put them away and said, Oh, that's bad. That's bad. That's bad during a short period of time, and now they're kind of coming back. And it's just going to take a little time for some spillover to, to come along. I would think for people to realize that this doesn't need to be illegal. It's mind

Lee Zunnis: 43:01

boggling that alcohol is legal, but and marijuana is now legal. But psilocybin mushrooms, which are so much more safe and gentle and have actual medicinal was, it's alcohol and marijuana since I just mentioned those. Yes, they do have a medicinal value to them. But they're much more. Actually, let's just talk alcohol is much more toxic than marijuana and mushrooms. So it's just a matter of time. And just you and I talking about this and having other people listen, I'm hoping it's D stigmatize.

Laura Wakefield: 43:43

Yeah, exactly. And I can't say that I'm a proponent. I tried it, I don't know much about it, really. But the little bit that I know, I feel more inclined to let to let people make their decisions and to learn about it. And it doesn't mean everyone's going to choose that it's right for them. You know, it's not about that. It's about the fact like you said that so many things are legal, that not everyone approves. So, you know, everyone doesn't have to approve to allow other people the right to to learn about it and make a choice for themselves. And that's what I'm about in in my life. Like I said, I've never tried this stuff, so I can't say it's good or bad or anything else but but I'm following my curiosity, like you said in the beginning and Oh, yes. Reading you tell me about it, because you do know about it, and I don't and I and I'm having an open mind to hear what you say. Does that make sense?

Lee Zunnis: 44:44

100%. Yes, and I just so many people are benefiting from this medicine. The founder of Alcoholics Anonymous. He tried to To make psychedelics part of the program, because he managed his addiction through psychedelics, so he wanted to be part of the part of the original program. But this was in the tight, you know, I think this was in the 60s, or the 70s. And it just got it just got stuck, just stomped

Laura Wakefield: 45:20

on? Well, because I do think, you know, in so many people's minds, myself included in the past, not so much in recent times. But there's such this image of this completely, like you said, earlier tripped out. Person going crazy when you hear the word psychedelics, that it's hard to, it's, it's hard to get that out of people's minds, that that's what psychedelics are, because it can be that if it's misused, you know, but it, it's not that for all of them, you know, perfectly mainstream people that are starting to recognize its benefits, especially in the microdosing.

Lee Zunnis: 45:59

I was just gonna say that, yes, yes.

Laura Wakefield: 46:02

So I have one last question for you. But before I ask it, tell everybody if they've heard some of this, and their, you know, whether they, whatever they think about if they're curious to know more, where can they find you online or elsewhere? Where can they find more out about you?

Lee Zunnis: 46:21

Yeah, I would say, the easiest way would be to visit my website, which is laziness, coaching.com. And I have a tab on there too. I think I have a tab on there too, to schedule a free consultation. But if it's not on there, I do. Okay. And I am, I would love I love giving these free consultations, some of them turn into a consultation slash coaching session. And so if anyone's going to sign up for one, know that I love doing this, and and to bring, bring a coaching topic, like work, bring something that you'd like to address. And then also, I'm mostly present, I would say on Instagram, at least in his coaching is the handle. And also Facebook leads on his coaching, and LinkedIn, as well. And I'm pretty sure at least with his coaching, for for for that, but I would say reach out through through my website, which will be the easiest. And that's leads in his coaching.com. He's doing his coaching.com.

Laura Wakefield: 47:45

And I can tell you like if anybody, not everybody's gonna resonate with the microdosing idea. But I would encourage people, even if that's just not for them to go follow you on all these platforms, because most of your content is so it's just, it doesn't even have to do with microdosing. It's it's coaching, you're a coach, first and foremost, and you just talk about inspirational topics and overcoming different things. And you're so positive and uplifting. I love your Instagram handle, I get things from every time I see your posts come through, I get some little nugget of inspiration there. So even if somebody is like microdosing, that's too far out for me, I can still go follow Lee because you will just find so much wisdom and enthusiasm and just zest for life there on his pages I highly recommend. So that brings me to my final question for you.

Lee Zunnis: 48:39

How does

Laura Wakefield: 48:42

all of this like like take the actual psychedelics out of it, but the idea of opening up your mind and your heart and your soul through whatever means whether it's psychedelics, or exercise, or all of those things? How does that help lead somebody toward more joy in their life?

Lee Zunnis: 49:02

Yeah, listen, I, I mentioned this before, but I'm going to mention it again. Because this is what I've really been focusing on with my clients is figuring out what's in a lot of people, a lot. Many people don't know, have not put the time or have not had the opportunity or have not thought about what's literally important to them. So that's the first step just what's important, get clear, that's the foundation and then analyze. What are these things being are we honoring these things? Are we literally honoring these things? And if we're not bring awareness to that and take action, because I mean things that's how things happen through through action. And I believe that you If we're honoring what's important to us, and we're in alignment with what's important to us, we are going to feel joy. It's the peace and the joy and the contentment of life. It's, I believe it's beneath it's, it's beneath, behind underneath, whatever. It's, it's, it's underneath all that. That noise that rumination, that obsessive thinking that we think about all the time. There's peace under there, and there's joy under there.

Laura Wakefield: 50:31

I love that because it exists within us all the time.

Lee Zunnis: 50:36

It's, it's there. It's within us. Absolutely. Yes, I firm. I'm getting goosebumps. As I say that. Yes, yes.

Laura Wakefield: 50:47

I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much for being my guest today. I think that it's been educational for me. And I apologize if any of my questions were too blunt. I'm just genuinely curious. And I know that the things that I'm wondering and thinking other people are too, and you've been so great to kind of share your wisdom and knowledge with us today

Lee Zunnis: 51:09

is my absolute pleasure and honor. I mean that I really do.

Laura Wakefield: 51:15

Thank you so much everybody go Sala Li Li zonas coaching, you won't regret it. And have a great day everybody. Thank you for joining me today on the joy Felicity podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and share and come follow me on all major social media sites at Joy Felicity or on my website, Joy felicity.com. You can follow the link in the description for this episode to all of the places that we can connect. Have a great day everybody and remember, dare to dream. Plan to play live to learn